Science File Mark, firstly, can you tell us a little about the Grant Museum, for those who may not be familiar with it?
Mark Carnall Okay, the Grant Museum of Zoology and Comparative Anatomy is University College London's (UCL) zoological museum. The collection was started in 1827 by the College's first chair of comparative anatomy and zoology, Robert Edmund Grant.
SF And it's one of London's oldest museums, if I'm not mistaken?
MC It is one of the oldest natural history collections in the country and sadly the last zoological university collection in London.
SF How do its collections differ from, say, somewhere like the Natural History Museum?
MC Well, in general unlike other types of museums, all natural history museums are more or less the same but there is a variation in the depth of the collection. However, that being said, the Grant Museum has a collection much more geared around teaching zoology. And lots of objects that were created at the college to fill a teaching niche.
SF Is the fact, therefore, that it's the last University Zoological museum a reflection on the changing nature of education, and what young people are studying, or is it more a matter of funding?
MC It was more to do with changing trends in the teaching of zoology and a move away from studying whole organisms. Molecular science and genetics came along and the zoological experts moved on to other museum or universities. Sadly this led to many collections across the country being binned. Literally thrown into a skip.But you hear about it still happening today. Fortunately, we managed to keep hold of some of those collections from other universities.
SF But presumably one can still do lots of useful science from studying whole organisms.....
MC Oh yes you can but conservation biology was much less at the forefront of biology then and in fact there was an outcry from biological employers a number of years ago saying that graduates lack some of the neccessary skills. The earthworm-snake argument.
SF Can you expand on what that means please?
MC A few years ago there was an article by Professor Bowler, complaining that zoology was the latest victim of audit culture and that modern graduates couldn't tell the difference between and earthworm and a snake. That is changing though, and colleagues here at UCL and elsewhere are working to bring back some of that "old school" zoology and to produce graduates with lab skills and a bigger picture knowledge.
SF I was reading that you have acquired some funds for a new type of 3D scanner......?
MC The college managed to secure a 3D laser scanner for a suite of research across the university, aside from the big industry stuff that brings in the cutting edge applications we've been fortunate enough to have access to it to look at the applications in heritage science, conservation of objects and visualisation and interpretation of 3D imagery. At the moment there are a number of museums looking into this technology but so far standards and applications are yet to be developed. It makes for interesting research.
SF So is this something you will use to preserve images of objects in the collection for the future, as well as strictly research?
MC Or a way of communicating conservation. The idea being that we scan an object here and send the scan to another researcher and make sure that they know how to read the scan. Also for monitoring very fine detail object changes due in terms of preservation. In the former example colour for example is very subjective, and morphology can be too, depending on the software configuration you have.
SF So are UCL students going into conservation more after they graduate, or do they tend to concentrate on research?
MC A bit of both. Encourangingly there are now more opportunities for students to work in environmental conservation than previously so we are experience a mini renaissance in zoology. Sorry, there might be some confusion over conservation in terms of objects and environmental conservation.
SF Zoology is certainly something that seems to be becoming more popular, and let us hope that more young people take it up as a career.
MC Absolutely, we need zoologists now more than ever but still with climate change scepticism still rife most animal and plant species are an unknown.
SF So is the move to your new premises to do with object conservation?
MC No the move to our new premises is because due to the historical development of the museum, we essentially ended up "squatting" in the old department of biology. So we are happy to move to bigger premises and I think the life sciences division is happy to have the space back although our current relocation is only temporary. But for how long we don't know yet.
SF Really? What's the long-term vision for the museum?
MC The long term vision for the Grant Museum and the other museums at UCL is to be better placed physically to act as one of the key interfaces between UCL and the wider world. The temporary museum will be a testing bed and launch pad to experiment with how natural history museums communicate with visitors. Despite almost everybody loving natural history, natural history museums are still very conservative when it comes to communicating important, politically delicate messages. So you'll read a label about the plight of whales, elephants or Orang utans for example but that's where the message ends. Should we be political? Is not being political a political stance itself? Or should we be recording people's perceptions rather than seeking to change them?
SF Perhaps it's inevitable given the skepticism from some quarters that your stance about conservation has to be, or will be considered, political.
MC But then would this turn visitors off? Because natural hsitory museums are quite conservative, people's expectations of them are that you can take your familly, there will be a dinosaur, an elephant, an archaeopteryx and chimpanzee. What would they think if we stood at the door telling them they are part of the problem if they eat fish (or whatever). And for many museums it still is a numbers game in terms of visitors. So we will look at how we can deliver a message without putting people off. And if our current paradigms of engagement are the best ways.
SF Is it becoming more difficult for you, as a museum, to communicate messages about, say, conservation, because of the politics surrounding climate change? And are people receptive? Because in my experience, most people realise that if we want to conserve wildlife then we need to change the way we live, even if they don't actually do anything about it.
MC It certainly isn't difficult through our events, schools work, university teaching, workshops and all of our public engagement and if one of our members of staff is in the museum when you come in we are all happy to talk to people about it. But it is whether putting out a bunch of cool stuff and labelling it in less than 22 words is effective. People are receptive and obviously the people who go to a museum are more than likely already aware of all of these issues. But there is a But there is a danger of saturating visitors with environmental issues.
SF Indeed. Is education the key to all this?
MC Well, to a certain extent, but then also finding those elusive people who don't come to museums is part of it. Every year we get feedback from a range of our events along the lines of "we didn't know museums did this kind of thing" And that kind of public engagement is key for the University. And key for all of us who work in the museum. There's no point just sitting on all these specimens if we can get out there and use them in such a positive way.
SF You must be encouraged, though, by organisations like the BBC doing series, for example, about the Natural History Museum, and some other excellent ones they've done recently, especially last year for Darwin. Perhaps these types of programmes will reach the ones that don't normally attend museums.
MC Ha, yes although even then museum work is unneccessarily skewed to show "kooky" and eccentric individuals. Yes, there is that, but we don't all walk around darkened store rooms in lab coats. And with regards to those amazing wildlife documentaries, they are widely watched and water cooler talk will be about all the interesting facts and footage but the key messages are sometimes missed.
SF Still, it might get a few more people interested enough to visit your museum.
MC Ha, yes, if they know about us. It isn't the easiest of place to get to but many visitors like the fact that it feels like a hidden gem. Hopefully the new premises will make us more accessible even though we're on TV and in timeout all the time
Just as a general point, is going to museums an activity that was more for the Victorians than today's i-Pad generation?
I think the opposite is true, especially of natural history museums but we need to hold off jumping on the social networking tools with such vigour as to forget the objects that people come and see. Museums are amazing physical spaces to be in and that will always be the case I hope.
SF Mark, thank you very much for your time.
The Grant Museum of Zoology will be closed to the public for just under 8 months, starting Wednesday 30th June 2010. During this period, the museum will be unable to accommodate any visitors to the museum or collection, although its programme of adult evening events will continue. The museum will re-open on Thursday 17th February 2011 in a new space:
The Thomas Lewis Room
Rockefeller Building
21 University Street
London WC1E 6DE